Siam Immortal Scientific Victory
Gameplay Images and Highlights
The setup: Siam, Immortal Difficulty, Standard Map, Continents. My goal is a Scientific Victory, utilizing their UA to get more from Religious, Cultured, and Maritime City-States. The benefit you will get with this Civ is quite random, as you could end up with any mix of CS composition. You may play one game where there are 5 Maritime CSs to give you an awesome bonus, or none of those and many Religious. In my case, I had a balance between Cultured/Religious CSs and only one Maritime available to me early in the game.
I made my fair share of mistakes, which I'll highlight at the end to help others learn from what I did wrong. This is a game where you learn from mistakes and improve your strategy, so I'm happy to share these and reflect on them to help my own gameplay on upper difficulties. Overall, founding a Religion was fairly pointless in this case. I did make great use of Faith, however, so had few regrets in that department. As you'll see, Happiness was my biggest problem.
I wanted to play a peaceful game, and at the same time not waste much time building Military. I did get my wish thanks to sharing a Continent with only one other Civ. My intention was to not need much of a Military by playing the Diplomacy game. I knew beforehand that I would start Tradition, move on to Patronage, and finally Rationalism. I would go Freedom if I got first pick, else choose an Ideology that my neighbor(s) had chosen. Here's how the game played out. Click images to enlarge:
I do a basic Tradition start and scout the surrounding area. I find Sri Pada and grow my Capital City large enough (Pop 5) to hard build a Settler with a little help from a Worker, chopping Forest. Naturally, I settle on this Wonder to get its benefits since the surrounding land is also good and it provides extra copies of luxuries. My only neighbor on the continent are the Byzantines, to the north, with several City-States around us.
Because of Sri Pada and the Religious CSs nearby, I decide that founding a religion is important to me, so that I'll keep the food bonus from my Pantheon. I elect to sacrifice a Warrior to get friendship with Ife, which brings Faith per turn to +8. This ultimately leads me to select the Beliefs above.
Instead of buying a second Settler, I use my 500g to ally Ife. 92/60 is excellent for now, and FPT is +12. The Byzantines forward settle me and claim some land north of my Capital. A lot of games, I would simply DoW her and take her out but I'm not in the position to because of my focus on Religion and lack of Military might. I really want to play peacefully, I'm just not in the mood to bother attempting it, even if there are no witnesses. I send a second Settler Southwest to get access to Whales and Pearls, while having a means of sending a great Food Trade Route to my Sri Pada City, which can have an Observatory thanks to the Natural Wonder counting as a Mountain.
After enhancing my Religion on Turn 99, and getting my National College out at Turn 109, I begin to build a Military as Theodora is scaring me. I took a risk here, but tried to keep tensions low with some positive Diplomatic Modifiers. Theodora signs a Declaration of Frienship with me but I can tell that she's deceptive - how could she not be coveting my lands, given I've taken Sri Pada and she has nowhere else to expand? I try to continuously give her good reason not to attack me - signing Trade deals and sending Trade Routes to her lands.
I get Education around Turn 130 to build Wats (Siamese UB, replacing University with +3 Culture) and sign a Research Agreement with Theodora to help curb her appetite for land. I feel this AI could make it through the game without attacking me, so long as I continue to suck up and work on my Science. I try to upgrade my military from time to time and keep gifting Gold to City-States to aid my Culture. I want to go Patronage to help keep these bonuses and get a bit more from City-States.
On Turn 144, I meet Venice, who will make an excellent trading partner with Si Satchanalai. I put up a Customs House to help that City's Gold per Turn throughout the game and give a little more incentive to send Trade Routes there. The higher a City's income, the more it will generate on trade routes, although Resource Diversity matters most. I am unaware at the time, but the Zulu, Chinese, Huns, Ottomans, and Poland are also in my game.
I save up gold and work to get 1k to get a cultural CS as ally, which will help me finish Patronage.
At this point, founding a Religion felt pointless and had wasted a lot of time. Missionary spam comes in hard from the AI, but results in me being able to purchase buildings of other Faiths, which helps with Culture, Happiness, and Faith. At this point, I give in and no longer care about my own Religion, but prefer Theodora's. She has Feed the World and it's helping to keep the peace. Civs like it when you adopt their Religion in your lands, although this bonus disappears at times when Venice or another Civ sends in a flock of GPs and Missionaries. You must adopt their Religion in the Majority of your Cities to get the boost, and this is ever-changing.
In the meantime, I get the Sistine Chapel (a Wonder that is easier to get on upper difficulties if you beeline it) and notice from the Diplomacy Overview screen that only Attila has Patronage and is at War with 3 Civs. Looking to this screen once Civs are met can give you an idea whether or not to build a Wonder that requires you to adopt a particular Social Policy. Given that he is my only competitor and is tied up building Units, I work on Forbidden Palace to give me Delegates for the WC and help my growth problems. I made a mistake in not getting Colosseums and Construction tech for Composite Bowmen done earlier. This results in some growth issues, as I'm at -1 to -3 Unhappiness. Thankfully, it never dips below this and Patronage has a Policy that helps increase Happiness from Luxuries gifted by City-States.
p>My first Proposal to WC is the World's Fair, primarily for the Diplomatic boost I'll get with the Byzantines, as they are the only Civ I fear given proximity and our history... and the fact that she's been hiding what she dislikes about me. Now in Renaissance, I use my Spies to acquire Tech an help me catch up. Venice catches me spying on turn 204, after I steal first Printing Press then Scientific Theory from them. That spy moves on to the Ottoman Empire, and as more come I keep a mental checklist of who has caught me spying. I promise not to spy and move on.
Although I do not come out in first, I use free Social Policy from World's Fair to finish Patronage. Next, I'll get to work on Rationalism. Only a couple of Policies are taken before I get to move on to my Ideology. I rush to build Public Shools, which go up a bit later than I'd like thanks to the World's Fair. I timed this very poorly, but think it could have prevented War that I did something Theodora approved of with my selection. As the most important buildings go up, I work on my Population even more. Internal Food Trade Routes and an Alliance with the lone Maritime City-State help my Civ begin to grow to a more respectable size. I finally begin hitting Golden Ages, which helps me construct the Scientific/Happiness buildings I need for success. I ignore things like Barracks, Constabulatory, Stable with only +1 Hammer, and anything else that wouldn't make a big impact on my Civ. Building maintenance can grow large when you have things you don't even use.
Oxford University is used to push me into the Modern Era via Radio, a common tactic for getting your Ideology by moving past Industrial (this avoids building 3 Factories) - you can do the same with the Rationalism finisher. I take the Eiffel Tower by Faith-purchasing a Great Engineer to aid my Civ's Happiness and perhaps gain a level of Influence with another Civ to help curb Unhappiness from differing Ideologies. This doesn't work out for me in retrospect, but I keep another Civ from getting this Wonder, and didn't care about Great Musicians from Broadway.
My Spies get caught with each Civ once as I make the rounds and steal Tech from them. My goal is to pass all other Civs by turn 300, but China has a lead on me.
Rationalism's +2 Science from each Specialist synergizes incredibly well with Freedom's reduction in Food/Unhappiness for Specialists. Running Specialists is much easier with this combination, though my Cities still have some growing to do in order to have a respectable output, so I only fill Science in my 2 other Cities, and Artsy-types in the other. This lets them focus on Food. I rush for the Statue of Liberty, using Faith once again to purchase a GE. This results in my Specialists giving +1 Production and gives me another free Social Policy.
Being friendly with multiple Civs, I take Research Agreements with them when they offer. Although it hits my bank, the leaps in Science are worth it.
I research Plastics on turn 263. The state of my Empire is fairly good, although Population could be higher. As Research Labs go up and Population trends upward, my Science begins to skyrocket. More population = more Specialists!
I make it a point to keep electing Theodora Host of the World Congress. This helps relieve any border tension, which has let me survive with little to no Military for quite some time. You don't need to fear distant Civs as much as you do your neighbors. They can definitely come whack you with a big Navy, but when they are warring with one another you can get a sense of security. That may be a false sense, but it can work out for you when you don't stack too many negative diplomatic modifiers with those other Civs.
Turn 301, I have 754 Science per turn and am just 3 Tech s behind China in Research. We are both ahead by an average of 2. Not that great, but not awful for my goal. Finishing Rationalism, I choose Satellites for my free tech. This helps with a couple of City-State quests for Natural Wonders, while at the same time giving me exclusive access to rush Hubble with a third Great Engineer (2500 Faith). All future Faith purchases will be Great Scientists to help me get the techs required for my Victory.
On Turn 315 I finish the Apollo Program, finally ready to build Spaceship Parts.
Turn 326 - Venice and Poland suddenly DoW me. I could feel things getting tense so had worked on my Military a little, by building a couple Fighters to help intercept any bombing runs. I am #1 in Science and 9% ahead of average. My military rating is only 168k to Poland's 449. I upgrade military and start building some bombers to aid in the defense of my lands. Thankfully, neither of these Civs is very close.
While Venice has a good Navy and Poland an Air Force, I defend, killing any Melee Units that could capture the Cities despite the fact that they fall to 0 health at times. My bombers strike back, and I pay Theodora to DoW Poland to cause some War losses. As I research Nanotechnology, both Venice and Poland sue for peace at Turn 350 while my Cities begin focusing on Spaceship Parts. After I have Trade Routes up once again, I Will Gold Purchase the parts thanks to the Tier 3 Freedom Tenet. Particle Physics should be Researched by Turn 370 at this rate.
Turn 379. Great timing: I gold-purchase the SS Engine 2 turns before the final Booster is finished. Other Civs have only 2 parts. As the turn processes before I attach the final part, Theodora Declares War on me. I laugh as I press Attach to Ship and leave her and the rest of the world behind for good, never to suck up to that deceptive bitch again.
Although my attempt resulted in a Victory, it was much slower than intended. I should not have Founded a Religion, although I did benefit from high Faith per Turn later in the game with my Great Engineer purchases. I could have waited a bit to get FPT up for that purpose, especially given the City-State composition and Siam's bonus. Inquisitors could have helped prevent other Religions spreading in my lands, but I would have lost Diplomatic boosts from sharing a Religion with Theodora at times. When playing Tall and going for a Science Win, I will likely ignore Religion outside of trying to Found a Pantheon for its temporary bonus. There are other means of getting Happiness and Food outside Religion. I should have got Happiness buildings (colosseum) earlier, as this stunted my growth. Also, two more Workers would have kept me from improving tiles up till Turn 150-200. That was a foolish mistake, and would have allowed me to get City Connections going faster and resulted in better standing with Css and more Allies. I did run Food focus a lot of the game, but my Cities had somewhat low population because of the Worker issue. If I had grown faster, I might have shaved 50 turns off this victory and been quite a bit more proud. Knowledge of Diplomatic Modifiers and how to use their combined effect to maintain positive relations with the AI helped me, especially once the World Congress was founded. I did not care about being host and was happy to let Theodora have it. I also found who she had Denounced and tried to avoid Friendship with them, and at one point Denounced the Huns (who had a score of only 400 vs 1500+) to help me suck up to her and appear to be on her 'side'.
Siam is a decent Civ thanks to their bonuses, and would have been well-suited to a Diplomatic Victory if I had better explored the World earlier in the game. Exploration is important and I did not do enough of it. The more City-States you meet, the more quests you'll have access to and some of those finish without you even paying attention, resulting in alliances that are easy to maintain.
Although I didn't mention it, I did get about 5 Great Person gifts from City-States. The earlier you finish Patronage, the better this bonus is as they come every 30-35 Turns when you have a few Alliances. I used a Great General to steal Silk and some good land from Ife for my second City, but otherwise got Great Artists. This resulted in some wonderfully long Golden Ages for my Civ that helped me play catch-up. My Civ's Cultural output was never bad, and I did get to finish 3 trees and go fairly far into Freedom. I have the Sistine Chapel to thank for that, along with the Wat and Cultural CS Allies. I did trade a few times to successfully get We Love the King day. That helped growth, as did the growing number of CS Allies I had. I did not make it a point to steal Alliances in this game - that would have made Civs hate me even more. I focused on keeping Cultural/Maritime CSs allies and ignored some of the others. I particularly avoided stealing Alliances from the Byzantine Empire unless they were of that type. This resulted in Theodora delaying War for a very long time. It really did play out that she DoW'd me on the last turn of the game, so I was not 100% successful in keeping her off me.
The following Guides are relevant to this playthrough:
- Science: How Science is generated, and maximizing output
- Diplomacy: Positive/Negative Modifiers and Civ Relations
- Science Victory: Requirements for Scientific Victory
- City-States: Alliances, and benefits
- Siam: Civ Bonuses and Strategies
Share comments and help highlight any other mistakes I've made during this game below:
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1Are you interested in getting feedback/discussing your games? There must a few things(aside from religious overfocus) that can be sharpened to get you below T300 on Immortal?
My best wins are: brazil, culture T292 and korea science T294. So I guess Im a skilled, but not expert deity player. Thx again.
I will definitely share more of my own games. This Guide needs 16 Civs + the Warmongering article done to be 'complete'. The Albums will give me something to do between this and The Sims 4 this Fall. I intend to try to share at least one Victory of each type and improve my Science game. Population is my weakness. Sometimes I'm using Production focus too much ,but have been micromanging Citizens way more often in games. Tagging one or two mines then letting the governor work all the best Food tiles has been helpful to keeping Production up while still growing. Those low-pop Cities winning Scientifically was fairly lucky, as I know the AI can pull that Victory off sooner. It all depends who is in your game...
Ultimately, this will give me something to do between finishing this guide and Sims 4. After all, I can stop publishing this type of thing after the site is done and move on with a clear conscience. I have 18 pages on my list to call this Civ 5 Guide complete... this is kind of bonus content :)