Carl's Civ 5 Guide
for Civ 5 Complete, Gods & Kings, and Brave New World DLC

Babylon Immortal Scientific Victory

Gameplay Images and Highlights for Learning and Improving

Game Set-Up
Standard size and Game Settings, Continents, Immortal, Babylon. Goal: Scientific Victory utilizing Babylon's UA.

Civs in-Game
Mongolia, Polynesia, Shoshone, Austria, Carthage, Inca and Netherlands.

The following is a journal of one of my games with Babylon on Immortal. I am working on improving my Scientific game on higher difficulties. Low difficulty, it's much simpler - the AI does not expand as quickly, and there is less to fear. While I can pull off a T300 or lower Science win on King/Emperor, my games are typically over 350 Turns on Immortal. I failed to bring my game length down compared to the Siam game I published, because of a highly aggressive neighbor and some bad habits. My single biggest mistake was being so anal about Tile overlap that I did not found a third City to the Southeast after making my National College. The extra Production and Internal Trade route were sorely needed. I am anal about tile overlap, and it cost me here. Lesson learned. I'll post another game soon with a faster time thanks to the lessons learned in these last games. Click Pictures to Enlarge:

The Start
I notice that if I move my Settler on top of some stone, I will be able to have 4 Copper worked by Babylon. This would be wonderful with the Earth Mother Pantheon, and might even allow me to Found a Religion. I am lucky and get +20 Culture from an Ancient Ruin. This saves me from building a Monument. I'll take the free one from Tradition.

My Build Order is Scout > 3 Turns on Worker > Shrine > back to Worker. My starting Warrior will help defend against Barbarians, while the Scout figures out the lay of the land. I hope to have Mining Research done by the time the Worker is out, but want the free Great Scientist from Writing early. This will help me secure Philosophy much, much faster.

Scouting the area, I meet Mongolia. This could be bad, but I hope to befriend him to have a trading partner. I don't care much about City-States, so it might work out OK. I am first to meet a Religous CS, which gives me +8 Faith. Kamehameha is met soon after. I decline both Civs' request to Accept Embassy. I don't want them to quickly Covet my lands.

Unfortunately, Mongolia is very close. I will go with 2 tall Cities. I don't want to have to fight and distract my Cities from growth/Science. My free Great Scientist is planted south of my City. I lock that tile. Thankfully, there is an excellent spot to expand to the West that has Crab and several Fish. It will serve as my trade center and help Babylon to grow by providing a Food Trade Route.

On Turn 26, I am able to select a Pantheon. I choose Earth Mother, of course. This will definitely help me to Found a Religion. Kamehameha's lands are discovered far to the North. I am beelining Philosophy so that I am able to get a National College early.

Turn 30, Genghis wants a Declaration of Friendship. I take it. Both of the City-States near me want a Barbarian Encampment removed. I switch to researching Archery, realizing I should've done so sooner. The Babylonian Unique Unit, Bowman, will help me to better protect against Barbarians. Playing on higher difficulties, the bonus vs Barbarians is very low (10% on Immortal) and gone on Deity. The 10% bonus isn't enough for me to charge in there and clear out the Encampment with a wounded Warrior.

Turn 34, my Worker is done. I set him to building a Mine on the grassland Copper resource. I put several turns into a Granary. Unfortunately, this area currently has really low Production. Since I will only go with 2 Cities, and it doesn't look like Mongolia or Polynesia will take my new area, I work on the Granary and chop a couple Forest to get a Settler out. I use a method where you change build back and forth to get both complete. When my Worker is about to chop, I switch to a Settler. On other turns, the City works on the Granary. This keeps the City growing and allows the Settler to be finished without sacrificing much growth.

I meet the Shoshone and delete my Scout when there isn't much land to explore. The 1 GPT will help right now.

After Philosophy, I take Animal Husbandry to reveal some Horses, then The Wheel to get a Water Mill in Babylon a little later. Bronze Working reveals Iron to the Northwest of Babylon. Doing the chop/swap build order thing twice, Babylon finishes a Granary and has only 6 turns left on a Settler. I finish it off. Unfortunately, neither Polynesia nor Mongolia have 250 Gold to buy my Copper or I would not have had to do this. Two forests later, my City has a Granary and the Settler is complete.

Turn 56, Akkad is founded. I need a Bowman to take out the Barb encampment. Akkad works on a Granary. I plan to use my Gold to buy a Library there.

Mongolia takes Kathmandu as I work on the Barb encampment. Looks like I won't be getting an Alliance with the Religious CS. I could liberate them, but it would not be possible for a long time. It would have helped with Founding a Religion, but it was never my focus here. Still, Earth Mother might work out for me.

After having bought a Library in Akkad, I am beelining Education as all Techs I need are unlocked. The Aristocracy Policy from Tradition helps with construction of a National College because it counts as a Wonder. I leave Babylon on Food focus, but lock the Iron tile for Production. I want this City to be huge.

On turn 90, my National College is done. I divert from Education to grab Sailing so Akkad can make Work boats. Babylon gets a Water Mill then two more Workers to speed up growth. I buy the Silver tile to help my Happiness troubles, while also trading with Polynesia.

Turn 103 I finish Tradition and have two Workers. One is helping Akkad (which still hasn't made a Work Boat) and the other is improving Babylon. My Alliance with M'banza-Kongo is gone, but I got a free Spearman. There is a lot of Military activity nearby. I am hoping to turn other Civs against one another.

Turn 105 I get to found a Religion. I take Tithe and Feed the World. Getting Food from Shrines and Temples will aid me in growth, big time. Education is 8 turns from completion, and I have 3 Workers with one of them constructing a road for a City Connection. I will need more Military to feel safe with Mongolia around and already having attacked two City-States.

Excellent timing. On Turn 110, my Civilization has its first Golden Age. Universities are quickly available to build, and soon I'll be able to run Writers and Scientists in my Capital as soon as the Guild and Uni are constructed. The expansion will take a bit longer, but this is to be expected. Food Trade Routes are now a priority. Both Cities need a respsectable Population.

Given Mongolia is obviously being very aggressive, I sick him on Polynesia. Kamehameha doesn't need to know what I've done, and the price is dirt cheap. I need time to build a Military. I choose to research Acoustics to push me into the next Era, lowering the Research costs of all other Techs. I will ignore the Sistine Chapel. Trading Mongolia 4 Horses + 1 Iron equals 5 Strategic, which is worth a Luxury - I take Furs to give Babylon We Love the King Day.

As my lands continue to develop and Akkad works on its University, I grab some lower techs - Engineering, Optics, etc. to help my Cities flourish. I cannot build all the buildings unlocked, but want them unlocked before I beeline Scientific Theory to get Public Schools. I finally get to unlock Rationalism, which will be my 2nd Policy tree. I didn't have to waste even one Policy in another tree because of how quickly I moved up in Era, or because of my low culture output - depends how you look at it.

Turn 142. A Great Scientist is Born in Babylon. This lets me set up my 2nd Academy. Babylon is growing quickly. At one point I have Workers making 3 Farms at once. While Oxford University is ready, I don't like Mongolia's behavior and start building a Military. Pikemen are key, because they will help counter his UU, the Keshik. To hold him off, I now have him Declare War on the Shoshone, because a Peace Treaty prevents another War with Polynesia. I will no longer sign Declarations of Friendship with Polynesia, because they angered Genghis.

Turn 153. Acquiring Salt allows Babylon to have a second We Love the King Day. One Turn later, I buy a Caravan in Akkad so that it can send Food to Babylon, allowing me to work 2 Scientist Slots and 2 Artist Slots. I will need to do the same for Akkad from Babylon soon to allow it work its University. Science Per Turn equals 138. Nothing amazing, but better than most Civs would have at this point.

Turn 157. I start building Oxford to unlock Architecture. Someone has built the Leaning Tower of Pisa, which is one of the only Wonders I would have wanted. I still want Porcelain Tower for the increase in Science from Research Agreements. When Genghis makes peace with Pocatello, I am worried so instantly send him back after Polynesia. My third Great Scientist is born on Turn 163.

Turn 166. I get to Enhance my Religion. I choose all growth bonuses, pictured above. Akkad doesn't follow my Religion yet, so I'll have to fix that as soon as I get enough Faith. When Oxford is done, I select Architecture and begin construction of the Porcelain Tower. I want a fourth Great Scientist. After that, I'll save them up to bulb if possible.

Turn 184. Scientific Theory is done, allowing for Public Schools. I want Workshops first - my Production is too slow, and it will help me get more buildings done faster. Overall, my military is awful. I need stronger Units. Thankfully, some will be unlocked on the way to Plastics for Research Labs. Porcelain Tower is 2 turns to completion, and I'm sure to get it. My Culture per turn is the worst I've ever seen at this point in a game.

Turn 187. Polynesia catches me Stealing, so i move on to the Shoshone. I am able to get Steel, as my Military tech is behind. The Free Great Scientist from Porcelain Tower replaces a Farm for an Academy. I am now in the Industrial Era, and will no longer use GS to plant Academies. On Turn 188, the World Congress is founded and I begin accepting Embassies. I have not explored the World, so this might help me find some trading partners. My Trade Routes are not being utilized, but I"ll correct it after Public Schools. Mongolia is still at War with Polynesia. I will send him back to the Shoshone as soon as that War ends. I receive intel from the Shoshone that Pocatello is plotting against Genghis, and share the intrigue with the Mongolians. This will give me a brief Diplomatic Boost (30 Turns).

Turn 197. My Civilization invents Electricity. There is no Aluminum within my borders, unfortunately. I beeline Radio because I will get to pick an Ideology by moving on to the Modern Era. I cannot build 3 Factories with only 2 Cities, and have not revealed Coal.

Turn 210. My Civ enters the Modern Era with Radio. Naturally, I choose Freedom as my Ideology with Avant Garde (25% GPP) and Civil Society (Specialists consume half Food). I will be able to work Specialists more easily, and my Civ could use the Culture I will get from Great Writers' Political Treatise to prevent Unhappiness from differing Ideologies.

My level 3 Spy in Babylon keeps killing off others' Spies, which is helping me Diplomatically - I keep forgiving them, which gives a small positive modifier. Genghis just now enters the Industrial Era. His Warmongering has kept him behind, and I'm not a good target to steal from. My problem is that the Inca are ahead of me Scientifically. I wish I had more land to expand to, but didn't want to make Social Policies cost even more.

Turn 217, Polynesia loses its Capital. I feel bad for them, since I caused this - but my Civ had to survive for the good of all. I notice that Genghis is now out of the War, so send him after Maria Theresa with another Trade Deal. Overall, this is working out for me. I could use some Cultural City-State Allies to help me finish Rationalism. Right now, I'm afraid to befriend anyone but Mongolia. He'll gut stomp me. I seek a Research Agreement with him, but know I could do much better if I were not in this situation.I end up signing a DoF with Austria. Multiple DoFs would help me by allowing me to soak in lots of Science from RAs. I trade Copper for Cotton from Austria and Babylon has its third We Love the King day. I will use this boost to keep it growing while utilizing those wonderful Specialists. My Trade Routes are now full (5/5)

Turn 224. I get to use a Great Writer to push me toward my next policy in Rationalism, +2 Science per Specialist. I finally have all three Guilds. I need it for defense against others' Tourism. Overall, I regret not having them out faster. It's not good to have a strong Tourism Civ in the game choosing Autocracy and pushing me toward Unhappiness. I have 1 Silver in my lands, and the luxury being banned pushes me to -1 Unhappiness. Thankfully, I have some buildings that had not been constructed to provide Happiness (a Colosseum and Zoo. I can now build Circus Maximums but still need that Military). It is hard to stop building things that help my Cities, when Military might just sit around. I need to keep a close eye on Mongolia, though he's renewed our Declaration of Friendship again. I use my Gold to seek Research Agreements and score 2, though I had to give Austria Gold to help them afford it. Austria and Mongolia now have good reason to stay Friendly with me.

Turn 234. 390 Science per Turn, working most Specialist Slots. I have two Great Scientists just sitting around and use a Great Artist to make a work of Art. My Culture per Turn is very low, but Hermitage will help and will be finished on Turn 240. I am beelining Plastics still, with the Statue of Liberty not far off. I suspect my being 1 Tech behind the Inca and in 2nd place is just because I have so few low-cost techs. These techs will be researched in just 1 Turn later, which will zip me far ahead. On Turn 240 I get to steal Fertilizer from a Civ. This will further help my growth, while I did not have to divert my rush to Plastics to get it. Great! I sacrifice a whopping 24 GPT to have Genghis DoW Maria Theresa.

Turn 245. I've been working on finishing Rationalism because of my low Culture. I finish Replaceable Parts and start the Statue of Liberty. No one else has chosen Freedom as far as I know, so it's an easy build. The free Social Policy will go toward Rationalism. A third Great Scientist goes into my stockpile. They are waiting for me to have 600 or more Science per Turn so that I get a load of Research out of them. For those not in the know, Great Scientists will give you the last 8 turns worth of Research when they use Discover Technology, so it's wise to set your Cities on full Science focus for those 8 turns, then pop them to maximize the effect. They're the only Great Person that is like this.

Turn 247. A Golden Age dawns, only my 2nd in the entire game - bad with two Cities. I did not manage Happiness well, but have at least avoided Wars. A Great Artist is born on the same turn, so I use him to add 8 Turns to the Golden Age (18 Turns total). This will help me get Research Labs up quickly.

Turn 252. This moment frightens me a bit - Mongolia is moving troops near my borders, but they are at War with Maria Theresa. I upgrade my Military as Babylon works on the Statue of Liberty.

Turn 256. Mongolia denounces me as I finish Plastics. This is not going so well - Mongolia are apparently growing angry at me, as they've chosen Order.. there's also the land covetry problem, as he's very hungry for my resources. I need a military, fast! Infantry from Plastics have 70 Combat Strength. They will aid me greatly with my overall military score, as it's based on the strength of Units. Mongolia is using Riflemen, so I'm far far ahead in tech. Hopefully fewer, but more powerful units will deter War or at least allow me to defend myself. I am building Research Labs, Hospitals, then researching Penicillin for Medical Labs/another Trade Route and will beeline for Satellites afteward. I now send Mongolia after Dido at a hefty cost of 27 GPT. Once my Infantry are built, I will no longer be bullied by him.

Turn 261. The Statue of Liberty is completed, and I take another point in Rationalism. I was able to get Universal Suffrage with a Great Writer, so take Sovereignty from Rationalism. I only need one more point to complete the Tree. Akkad is building Infantry, after having completed a Seaport which gives it a nice Production boost because of its 4 fish resources.

Turn 264. I finish Refrigeration just as my next Policy comes up. I get to choose Penicillin for my free Tech. It's expensive so that's great, and it will allow me to build Medical Labs which will boost growth in my two Cities, particularly once Hospitals are done. My only limiter will now be Happiness. I need Universal Healthcare to help with that, as i'll get +1 from each National Wonder.

Turn 270. Research labs are going up in both Cities, and I've made 2 Infantry. 8 Turns after Research Labs are finished, and having put both Cities on Science Focus (working all Specialists) I will pop all my Great Scientists to help me zoom toward Satellites. Another Great Scientist is born a turn later, giving me 4. I will also be able to buy one with Faith, so five GS Discover Technologies coming up! Unfortunately, Mongolia now has Great War Infantry so I'm not strong enough... I am soon asked by the Netherlands to denounce the Shoshone, which I figure might help my relations with Genghis as well.

While another Great Scientist would be nice, I change my mind and buy a Great Engineer with Faith to rush Cristo Redentor. It will help me with adopting new Policies, so should help me to break even on what I would have gained from a GS. I need several more Tenets from Freedom for my Civ to have enough Happiness to grow.

I need Genghis on someone again, this time The Inca. The deal is really cheap. I don't need Oil, so I'm happy to trade this off to him for the diversion. The Inca are 2nd in Science, so it's super helpful to have them tied up in a War.

Turn 282. A screenshot of my current standing. Not surprising, I'm first in both Population and Literacy. I am in next to last place in Military because of Polynesia being removed from the game.

I pop all my great Scientists at this point. They give 4407 4 times, and I go from 6 Techs needed for Satellites to just 3. I am only 17 turns away from being able to build Hubble because of how much Science has bled over. My Cities are making Medical Labs. Thankfully, another Great Scientist is born and I'll research Satellites on Turn 293. As Babylon is only a few turns from finishing Apollo, Satellites opens up the map. I get to discover some Natural Wonders, very helpful as I need more Happiness. I decide I will use Faith to purchase another Great Scientist at 1000 Faith (my FPT is an awful +19) and hard build Hubble after Apollo is done.

At this time, I greatly fear War. I decide to make Akkad dedicated to making some Military forces. I now beeline for Helicopter Gunships, because I have so many Lancers.

Turn 305. I send Mongolia after Maria Theresa and another Great Scientist is born. I have nearly researched Computers, allowing for Helicopter Gunships. I need them badly, so go ahead and upgrade my Lancers to Anti-Tank guns.

Turn 309. I finish Hubble and use both Great Scientists immediately. Now I just need to unlock the Spaceship parts.

Turn 321. Another Great Scientist is born, and I take Volunteer Army from Freedom. Mongolia would have a very hard time bringing me down now, as I can upgrade these units to Infantry. Akkad is building Sydney Opera House just to have a place to put Great Musicians. I have Open Borders with no one to prevent me from having extra Tourism from them, which would result in more Unhappiness from differing Ideologies.

Though my borders expanded well, I have no access to Aluminum. I Ally M'banza-Kongo to correct this. That allows me to upgrade to Helicopter Gunships.

Turn 325. Mongolia finally declares war. I put it off as long as possible, but it was an inevitablity. I have a Submarine as my only Naval Unit, and plenty of power around Babylon. We're definitely fighting on my turf.

A massive swarm of Units come, and I'm losing units each Turn, while simply damaging most of his forces. My Empire is at -8 Unhappiness because of Ideology differences and Trade Deals that Mongolia canceled. I must figure my way out of this, somehow. I see an Austrian aircraft carrier off my coast, but she's unwilling to Ally with me. She does trade me 3 Luxuries for some of my Strategic Resources and some GPT. That gets me out of the Happiness hole, so I can fight without these combat penalties, but my forces are dwindling.

As my forces get hammered by Mongolian Artillery, the Shoshone decide to capitalize on the situation and Declare War on Genghis. This should help! I seek other Allies, as he's made plenty of enemies thanks to my past bribes. I cast my vote for Austria for World leader (she has only 14 Delegates). This seems to help diplomatically, as she's willing to declare war the next turn! Now Mongolia has two other Civs attacking.

On the next turn, Mongolia sues for peace because they can't easily take my Cities because of how poorly the AI manages Naval and other units, being unable to move and fire on the same turn. Now I can resume my Scientific Victory with 3 civs tied up! My workers have a bit of repairs to do, but overall all Mongolia did was make it simpler for me to finish with higher GPT from a smaller Military. I will build only planes and a few ground units now, so that I can squash invaders...

On Turn 342, Mongolia gets Embargoed and Babylon is 2 turns from completing CN Tower. I will have Mobile Tactics soon to upgrade my Infantry. I'm on my way to Particle Physics (SS Engine), getting Advanced Ballistics (SS Booster) on the way, but saving up money to purchsae some of them. I realize I need a SS Factory in Akkad, so switch to Robotics after unlocking the Cockpit. A Great Engineer is born, so I use him to rush the Great Firewall in Akkad while Babylon finishes CN. It'll stop Civs stealing Tech, and anyone who gets Internet will not be able to influence me as much and produce Unhappiness. I have enough happiness to grow, and victory is very close.

Turn 343. CN Tower and Great Firewall finish on the same Turn. Now I can start building SS Parts.

Turn 347. Mongolia DoWs me again. Painful to see, given he outnumbers me greatly now. Unfortunately Peace Treaties and disinterest prevent any one else from helping me stop his invasion of my lands. I actually question his seriousness or if he's used up too many units in those Wars, as he invades with multiple Anti-Aircraft guns when I only have 2 bombers, and has a rather poor mix of units invading. They also move slowly... that could be because there are many units behind, but I'm unsure at this point. I will check each turn to see if Maria Theresa or Pocatello's Peace Treaties with Mongolia have ended. I need them in the fight, for it might end this war one last time.

Turn 351. I am fighting him off as best I can. I have 3k Gold, so decide to replace a lost Bomber, buy a Missile Cruiser to help protect against his Navy, along with 2 Submarines, and fight back as best I can. On Turn 353, he gives me yet another Peace Treaty. It should be the last war we fight, as I'll have Maria on him soon.

I am now finishing Spaceship parts and the final two Techs I need. I will get to buy one part, because there's not enough time to accumulate enough gold for two. 6k Gold is a lot, and my Trade Routes are trashed. I decide it's better to just focus on those parts. I pay Maria Theresa to DoW Mongolia once again. I have done this at least six times now... what a wonderful diversion tactic. Mongolia's army has been built up the past 10 Turns, so he's much more formidable now. A Great Artist is born on Turn 367, which I use to create a Golden Age. This will see me through to victory!

Turn 377, I attach the final booster and win the game, regretting that I did not have a third City or a Mountain to make it much, much faster. I won only 2 turns faster than my Siam game.

Unhappiness kept my Civilization from growing faster, though Babylon did have a respectable Population of 50+. Trouble is, you need more with only two Cities. Aside from raising Science, this speeds production of critical buildings which gets their benefits going faster. Additionally, you can work Specialist slots more and have a higher Cultural output. Eventually you have Citizens filling all slots/unemployed when working every tile around a City. I should have Settled the area Southeast, but was too obsessed with having little/no overlap for my Capital. Ultimately, I should have micromanaged the Tiles to give Babylon all workable Tiles and had a slightly smaller City. So long as it got to 20 Pop, I would have been happy to have it. Fighting back against Mongolia was also an option...

Overall, I did a decent job having spawned next to such an aggressive Civilization, although I should have founded that third City even if it meant tile overlap. I had to keep Mongolia off me the entire game, else I'd be food. Defending against him and all the trade deals I made with him and other Civs to wage war cost me and slowed me down. I failed to Ally with City-States aside from M'banza-Kongo. Cultural CS would have allowed me to adopt more Policies. I needed to locate those on other Continents given how many CS Mongolia destroyed on my own.

While this did not improve the rate at which I won the game, I learned valuable information about keeping up relations with Civs. Using your Spy defensively can let you get brief boosts for forgiving Civs, and other Civs know nothing of deals you make to get a Civ to DoW them. I made Mongolia have a lot of enemies, and without knowledge of my deception those enemies came to my aid. Bribing Civs to DoW one another can allow you to survive entirely without a military, but you will not always find that Civ willing to DoW. In those times, you have someone else DoW them to tie them up. Soemone is always willing to go to war in Emperor+ games, because they always have the military muscle to do so.

I am always open to suggestion for improving my own play and would appreciate any comments that help me and other players. I hope that some of this information is helpful to players who struggle to win. As I improve my Immortal play, I'll publish another gameplay summary with a faster win time. If this had been Emperor or below, I could have done it significantly faster because the AI would not have been as aggressive. A Mountain would have helped me a lot, but I took the start I got and ran with it. Akkad losing its religion was a problem, but I never had the Faith per Turn I needed to really utilize my Religion. Buying a Missionary for 400+ Faith would have prevented me from purchasing the Great Scientist and Engineer I used at the end of the game. I was lucky Mongolia didn't focus on spreading, or my Religion would have been wiped out entirely. Instead, Babylon was able to use it the entire game for extra growth.

The following Guides are relevant to this playthrough:

Share Tips and FAQs (8)

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David says...
It impresses me how single-minded you had to be in your research. I'd have been tempted to grab all the good national wonders early, especially the ironworks, to capitalize on only having two cities. But I guess that's a distraction from maximizing research.

I was also curious about maybe placing Akkad one tile south. That would have cost a fish but given a river plains wheat and two river hills. Again, gaining production but likely at the expense of science ultimately.

When you talk about settling SE do you mean on the coast between Babylon and Hanoi? What about south to take in a fish, two game and hills?

Very deft maneuvering diplomatically. Hats off!
Admin:
Akkad's placement there was necessary to get the Crab as a workable tile, but you're right that it could have gained more from the river tiles, and I might have done that if I had thought quite a bit longer. I could have still go the luxury, just not been able to work it. But, I needed the Luxury quite early so couldn't wait around on border expansion else buy all those tiles and wait on the City to decide to grab one 4 tiles out. 

That is what I mean by settling SE, yes. It would have had to work the tundra tiles and had the camps, doomed to be low pop but could have provided the other two cities with internal trade routes and made up for itself. 

With regard to Research, you naturally want everything but just don't have enough time to build it, and if you are all over the Tech tree you aren't pushing toward the next Scientific building. I think it's OK to divert once in a while, but some people beeline consistently and would only get those things when they're a turn each.
21st May 2014 1:57am
Rob says...
That was a great read, and I was also impressed by your single mindedness. I have to say though, with such an aggressive neighbour I would have abandoned any plans of going 2 cities by turn 50. Any benefit of a small number of cities was eliminated by your low culture output and handicapped military production.

Personally I would have placed two additional cities east and north east of Babylon while he was engaged in his first war, and geared up for a defensive war to weaken his position.
Admin:
I certainly could have joined the Shoshone/Polynesia in a War to take some of Mongolia's Cities, and likely done so without having any major diplomatic repurcussions. I did want to demonstrate how easy it is to send a Civ after others and avoid war with them, but it did cost me. Worst neighbor I could've had really, not many Civs go after CS so aggressively.

I really do need to learn to adapt a bit more, I should have taken that third City and fought back. This is a learning experience for me as well, because I'm relatively new to Immortal. These are the first games I've sat to play for pure pleasure after having worked on this Guide for so long. I am able to put all this together and do extremely well on Emperor, and anything below would be a joke. My win rate got to 90%+, and I find myself pussyfooting around in Immortal, scared of what they'll do to me. But, that fear is amplified a bit when I've got a notepad open with 20 paragraphs written and not wanting to trash it lol.

You can know all the mechanics and put some of them to good use, and relaying those mechanics to others is something I'm able to do. The trick to this game and mastering it is to use all of them well, take your time, and make good decisions. That comes from experience. I did just as good in my Siam game because of only getting the 4 academies. They did just as good with low population thanks to getting the extra Science from City-States. I should have had more like 6 Academies, and I could've had an entire policy tree worth of extra bonuses if I had worked on my culture.
21st May 2014 9:11am
rob says...
I think you did well to hold your nerve. Like you I sort of pussyfoot around in Immortal, but I mainly play Emperor simply because I find it more interesting trying something a bit out there, and more enjoyable.

I think something to remember in civ is that your progress is comparative to your neighbors, and that it can be important to stop opponents snowballing, especially on higher difficulties. Adaptive strategy is very tricky, balancing out between knowing when to switch tactics and when not to second guess yourself is hardest of all.
21st May 2014 6:45pm
Carl says...
I agree, and think I might publish a game on Emperor just to display the difference and perhaps an early-game Cultural win at that. I think that is one of the most challenging victory types. Overall, showing these Immortal games should be helpful to people who are playing low difficulty because doing even half of these things will practically guarantee success.

I find Emperor to be the sweet spot and really do enjoy my games there, I just don't necessarily want to win all the time. It's more entertaining to have a challenge now, it's just that it feels like I'm gaming the system. I can't do anything 'out there', trying something new and fun, it's so formulaic playing on upper difficulties and only the true masters of this game can pull off those more interesting victories on these difficulties. I also feel like my Civ choice is more limited, because you want a Civ with strong bonuses to help offset those of the AI.
21st May 2014 7:34pm
Rob says...
I was actually inspired by your report to give Immortal another bash yesterday. The result: a really solid fast(turn 284) culture win with Poland, funny your should mention that ;)

I hadn't realized but I had yet to actually finish an Immortal game. Its actually a pretty good example for adaptive strategy as well- I can email you a short report with some thoughts on the tactical decisions?
Admin:
Post them to the Poland page so that players can see how well you used their UA! I love that Civ, it's definitely one of the best in the game. I might give Cultural Victory a stab with them myself.. those extra Policies would make it quite fun to try to get Sacred Sites Reformation Belief from Piety without sacrificing much. It's possible I could mirror your report on a playthrough page to show another's experience with them. I would love it if more players shared their experiences with a particular Civ on their pages. The whole goal of this site is to help people learn.

Congratulations on your first Immortal win. I am considering posting some Emperor play, as most people play at or below that level. I remember back in Civ 3 playing on Warlord and finding it challenging. I got better at the game, for sure... but it was just flat more entertaining than going through the motions on Immortal. I actually lost a game today, basically found I was just too behind. Still, I will not give up!! Immortal seems easier as I keep going :)
23rd May 2014 2:51am
Rob says...
I actually have tried to write longer comments in the past but the character length is very limited. If you recall I posted something about sacred sites months ago? Well that was actually 3-4 times the length but I had to trim it down to get it to fit.

I also wanted to ask you about screen shots. When I print screen from civ I end up with an all black shot. And I don't mean the Zealand's rugby team! ;)

Do you use a special piece of software?
Admin:
Thanks for responding and letting me know! I lifted the limit from 1k characters to 5k! You should be able to work with that ;)

Yes I do recall your post and appreciate it. This should give you enough to share your experience.

I use Fraps to take my screnshots. It lets you pick a key to save shots with, and where to save them. I use Z since nothing is tied to that key in the game. Otherwise I think a person uses print screen to take shots, saved in my documents under my games/civilization 5. The TGA format it saves them in can't be read by some screenshot programs - I use Irfanview for image viewing/editing. Both are free :)
24th May 2014 12:02am
rob says...
Brilliant, Fraps seems to work a treat!

I'll see what I can do with 5k characters ;)
24th May 2014 2:27pm
Bill says...
Hey, love the site!

Just one question: How the heck did you get a Great Scientist at turn 26?!
Admin:
Babylon gets one free when they research writing, which can be done very early. You can even find it in a ruin and get it earlier.
1st August 2014 8:46pm
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